Tokyo, Procrastination

I was listening to a recorded lecture today.  The speaker, Carla Neggers, quoted from Elizabeth George's book on writing, "discipline, you're born with it or you aren't."  I may need to go back and have another listen to double check my accuracy with the wording.

The topic of the lecture was about understanding your creative process and the discussion turned to discipline. I suppose I could go into more context, but the phrase exactly is what I'm hoping people will comment on.

Are you born with only so much innate discipline?  What does this mean for learning discipline.  Is it possible?

I'm really eager to read what other people have to say on this idea.  I haven't come to an opinion on this yet.  I need to have a really deep think about it.  But this really hit me where I live so it will take some time for me to really think honestly about this question.

 

Discipline.  You have it or you don't.  Whatcha think JUers?


Comments
on Jan 13, 2009

I think it is taught.  Many things are inherited, but I have seen too many people diagnosed with "ADD" or "ADHD" that have discipline.  It was a lot tougher for them to learn than me (perhaps you), but they did.

on Jan 13, 2009

I guess it would depend on where the discipline is applied to. I am naturally disciplined in certain aspects of my life and lack a lot of discipline in others even when my mother tried to teach me as I grew up. Some kinds of discipline can be learned, but that is up to the person to want to learn.

on Jan 13, 2009

Of course discipline can be taught! What do you think boot camp is for? The armed forces take all sorts of recruits and drill discipline into each and every one. Self discipline might be a different issue though.

on Jan 13, 2009

I meant self discipline.  I should have been clearer.  That's just me in my head and too wrapped up in the context of what I was doing to realize I had been vague.

 

Some interesting answers.  I'm still thinking about this but have to go to work so no time for longer answer (and no access at work).

on Jan 13, 2009

I think of self-discipline is linked to belief in one's own abilities.  It is not merely whether they're born with it or if they learned it (I think it is most likely a combination of the two, although I'm kind of hedging my bets here). 

I agree with Whip - boot camp is where a soldier learns obedience and team work.  Anyone working against this soon finds out there is no place in the services for them.

on Jan 13, 2009

The term "willpower" is a misnomer, there is of course no power or force that exist that can be conjured up out of thin air to help us control our actions and reactions. However people can certainly be trained to have more control over their decisions, mostly by employing mind trickery and exercises similar to memory improvement exercises. Repetition can create new behavior norms but just like any other physical or mental attribute genetics is the baseline and the limiter of the self-discipline an individual possesses.

Chemical dependences can be impossible for some to overcome but the difference between those that do and those that don't is the level of Chemical imbalance that the dependency has caused in their brain, not so much the individuals level of self-discipline. We are all ultimately at the whim of electrochemical processes that are not under our control.

on Jan 13, 2009

What's taught in bootcamp isn't discipline, its obedience.

I would say a bit of both.

on Jan 14, 2009

I think bootcamp is not really teaching discipline as much as obedience and some set skills.  Major disclaimer, I've never been to bootcamp.  I'm willing to be corrected in this.

Here is where I'm coming from on the idea of discipline-- I'm not talking about the things that parents do to teach their children such as spanking or grounding or the things your drill sergeant makes you do if you screw up drill.  I'm talking about the thing that makes people wash the dishes in a way that has them dry the sink when they're done; the things that drives people to finish a task and not give up on it; the thing that helps people stick to a diet or give up smoking.  Can I separate this from being driven by fear?

Is this something that we're born with or is it something that can be learned?  Given the profusion of self-help books I think that it's something a lot of people (me included) lack and haven't been able to achieve.

Again, to use the bootcamp reference, assuming that what I am learning uses fear as a motivation; a learn these things or the enemy will kill you situation. How many of the things learned in bootcamp will transfer into discipline in one's daily life?  And of those examples one might find of people who seem to have made that kind of transfer, is this something that they truly learned in bootcamp or a mindset that came with already?

I really need to check out that book that Neggers was talking about.  I haven't had time to re-listen to the lecture yet.  I have a feeling though, that the original author doesn't go into a lot of detail about that.

I'm going to try to think of a really good analogy for what I am thinking.  I only have half an analogy so far.

little-whip


 Look at it this way, if you spank your kid (discipline) for running out into the road without looking, the goal isn't really to teach him he's going to be 'disciplined' when he does this, the goal is to teach him not to do it in the first place, ie: to obey safety rules. 

Exactly.  It's also motivating with fear since the alternative to running out in the road is injury or death.

stubbyfinger


The term "willpower" is a misnomer, there is of course no power or force that exist that can be conjured up out of thin air to help us control our actions and reactions. However people can certainly be trained to have more control over their decisions, mostly by employing mind trickery and exercises similar to memory improvement exercises. Repetition can create new behavior norms but just like any other physical or mental attribute genetics is the baseline and the limiter of the self-discipline an individual possesses.
Chemical dependences can be impossible for some to overcome but the difference between those that do and those that don't is the level of Chemical imbalance that the dependency has caused in their brain, not so much the individuals level of self-discipline. We are all ultimately at the whim of electrochemical processes that are not under our control.

I agree with this.  So discipline is innate, basically with a little "environment" to smudge the line a bit?

little-whip

The only thing that disciplines me is my conscience....and my Husband, lol.

ha ha  

CharlesCS


I guess it would depend on where the discipline is applied to. I am naturally disciplined in certain aspects of my life and lack a lot of discipline in others even when my mother tried to teach me as I grew up. Some kinds of discipline can be learned, but that is up to the person to want to learn.

So what are the aspects that inspire you to be disciplined?  I know that you're saying motivation is the key, but can you narrow it down to some specifics?  I'm just curious about what clicks it for you.

Dr Guy


I think it is taught.  Many things are inherited, but I have seen too many people diagnosed with "ADD" or "ADHD" that have discipline.  It was a lot tougher for them to learn than me (perhaps you), but they did.

One of the elements of ADHD, as I understand it, is the ability to have incredible focus on things you are interested in.  Edison is the most famous example of this aspect of ADHD according to a woman I worked with who had it.  

on Jan 14, 2009

I believe any significant emotion (not just fear) can lead to discipline, may in fact be the root of all discipline though I'd have to think that through some more. 

I love my kids.  I do things for them I'd rather NOT do at all.  Things I not only do, but do well.

I "fear" getting a speeding ticket, or being in a wreck, or endangering my life and that of others, so I drive more responsibly than I WANT to. 

I hate the way certain people make me feel, or the way they treat me, so I avoid them (even when I really want to be with them).

That's fear, love, hate, all strong emotions can go a long way in discipline.  It can be the fuel which drives.

I don't think one is born with it; it is learned.

on Jan 14, 2009

(I think it is most likely a combination of the two, although I'm kind of hedging my bets here).

Yea, that is a definite maybe there!

on Jan 14, 2009

We must all suffer from one of two pains: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. The difference is discipline weighs ounces while regret weighs tons.

 

Some cat named Jim Rohn said that.